Mercedes has announced it is taking over Brawn GP and rebranding it Mercedes Grand Prix for 2010.
But it remains to be seen whether they will keep world champion Jenson Button in the team.
They are expected to bring in Nico Rosberg and may partner him with a second German driver – possibly Nick Heidfeld.
Button is tipped to move to McLaren – who he visited on Friday – to join Lewis Hamilton in an all-British line-up.
Mercedes will take a 75% share in Brawn. In May I wrote how appealing the idea of a Brawn deal was for Mercedes. Two months ago reports emerged that a deal was on the cards for 2011. That now seems to have been brought forward.
The deal, which sees Mercedes shifting their stake from McLaren to Brawn, should guarantee the future of the team which was sold by Honda almost 12 months ago.
McLaren and Mercedes worked closely together on and off the track after Mercedes became an engine supplier to the F1 team in 1995. The two developed the Mercedes SLR McLaren which was built at the McLaren Technology Centre.
But now Mercedes has used in-house tuners AMG to build its replacement – the SLS – and McLaren has developed a supercar of its own – the MP4-12C.
Expect the 2010 Mercedes F1 car to take on the silver colouring that’s been associated with McLaren since 1997 (see illustration above). It will be the first time Mercedes has run its own F1 team since 1955 when it had a British driver in its line-up – Stirling Moss.
McLaren could return to their historic orange colour scheme. Mercedes’ press release, reproduced in full below, says:
The change to the form of co-operation is taking place by mutual agreement. Mercedes-Benz and McLaren will continue to co-operate with each other and the supply of engines could continue until 2015.
Is this the sad loss of a giant-killing independent team, or a welcome vote of confidence from a major manufacturer? And how would Hamilton and Button fare as team mates? Have your say in the comments.
Mercedes take over Brawn
Cristian
16th November 2009, 12:17
I think it might be the end of the winning ways for Ross if he is not let to do his job right.
A with regard to Lewis and Jenson I think that Jenson will be #2 from every point of view.
Ned Flanders
16th November 2009, 13:53
Button has a difficult decision to make now. He can either go to Mclaren and play second fiddle to Hamilton, or to Mercedes, who I could envisage favouring Rosberg.
Button would get destroyed by Hamilton, simple as that, but I don’t rate Rosberg all that highly so perhaps Mercedes would be the better option
three4three
16th November 2009, 15:47
But at least at McLaren Button would be getting paid a lot more, so for him it’s the best of a bad situation. And straight after winning the WDC too!
sato113
16th November 2009, 16:29
i don’t think they’d favour Rosberg at mercedes if button stayed. it’s the same brawn gp team from this year with the same staff. they love jenson!
ok there may be a few staff from germany wandering around…
Sideshow Bob
16th November 2009, 17:36
Seriously, it’s time for Raikkonen to hook up with the new Benz team now.
Chris
16th November 2009, 18:28
Yeah I agree,now he can get his Huge Wage and(possibly) a proper winning car.
Phil T
16th November 2009, 18:41
Eh ? If they are not prepared to pay Button the relative pittance he asked for they are not going to come anywhere near Raikkonens wage demands are they ?!
Sideshow Bob
16th November 2009, 18:44
I’d put a good chance on Brawn/MB having a fast car next year – they started developing the 2010 car way back in summer, at least as early as Ferrari and probably way, way before Red Bull. If Mercedes is serious about competing with the big boys they’re going to need more than a Rosberg/Heidfeld combo.
BGSF1
16th November 2009, 19:24
Mercedes are going to be expected to do well next season because they are following on from what work has already been done by the Brawn team, and since they are a larger more financially sound team then they will have more money to invest into RnD into the car. Whilst McLaren who have told us that they have been doing alot of work on the 2010 car which is already quicker than the 2009 car at Bahrain. So personally Mercedes having an all German line up and McLaren having a all British line up would cause a very good season, two very good teams with fast cars and fast drivers throw in some Ferraris, and no refueling then I’m buzzing already with excitement.
BGSF1
16th November 2009, 20:12
If button joins Merc then this would be going against of what he said that he would want to go with a car that would give him the best chance of another shot at world champion then is it not the best idea for him to stray away from merc because he will have more chance with mclaren.
Harv's
16th November 2009, 22:09
how ever if button went to mclaren he would have the number 1 on his car and lewis would have the number 2, i think we all remember what lewis did to his last team mate who had number 1
mm
16th November 2009, 14:11
A Button move to McLaren would put him at car number 1 and Hamilton as 2 – who would have imagined that a year ago!?
Antiriad
17th November 2009, 7:06
The problem Jenson now faces is similar to Jacques before him: a change of regime within the team which could see him out of favour.
Jacques was the golden boy of his manager and BAR team boss Craig Pollock. When he departed, Jenson became the golden boy of the new Dave Richards/Nick Fry management team and Villeneuve was shown the door soon after. And so with Brawn/Mercedes in control now, it does not dictate that Button will remain in that position either.
I would imagine that Brawn/Merecedes are looking at Vettel in the long term (and/or Hulkenberg if he impresses) as neither will have been impressed with Button’s protracted wrap up to the title this year.
Mercedes will want a high quality German having failed to get Schumacher into a McLaren back in the day, whilst Brawn liked working with Michael at Ferrari and would like a driver of similar calibre.
If Jenson’s ego can accept being a #2 to Hamilton at McLaren then it could be a mutually beneficial long-term partnership. McLaren were happy with driver stability in the form of Hakkinen and Coulthard after all. The latter being fast enough to keep the former on his toes, but not enough of a threat to disturb him.
Praveen Titus
17th November 2009, 13:24
Great judgement. I believe (though I could be wrong) that Button is by no means a “World Champion calibre driver”. It’s the new rules and the early superiority of the Brawn machinery that gave Button the championship. Vettel certainly makes sense in the long term as does Hulkenberg (depending on his performance). But Heidfeld, no. Maybe he can stay on till Vettel is freed from his current Red Bull contract. But I thought Mercedes would be interested in securing the services of the Iceman, Kimi Raikkonen.
simonrs
16th November 2009, 12:19
It says in the Mclaren statement that they will keep their livery – wonder what Brawn’s will be then to avoid a clash?
Chalky
16th November 2009, 13:15
….and I just got excited about them going back to orange. :(
Phil
16th November 2009, 13:42
Yes, but having reflective (or even white) livery at hot, sunny races must present a small, but probably still significant, heat benefit.
James
16th November 2009, 16:43
They may not bother? Remember last seasons Force India, which if it wasnt for the blatent lack of pace, was easily confused with the Mclaren.
Prisoner Monkeys
16th November 2009, 12:20
Nick Heidfeld as second driver.
Wow, could Mercedes have screwed up the driver choice any more? They’re going to SUCK.
You’d think they’d do everything in their power to get the incumbent World Champion.
TommyB
16th November 2009, 12:35
I’d put Heidfeld in. I think he’s as good as Button
Luke
16th November 2009, 12:53
If not better
Ned Flanders
16th November 2009, 13:56
This is crazy- Heidfeld has just gone from the most underrated driver in F1 to the most overrated! I think he’s a good driver, and he deserves a big chance for a change, but he isn’t quite top drawer material
Leon
16th November 2009, 14:06
Spot on.
I don’t see him making the top step very often.
However….let’s just zoom back twelve months and pretend this debate is taking place in November 2008….. Jenson Button for 2009
WDC….. in your dreams mate…… !
luigismen
16th November 2009, 17:46
They don’t need a top driver in Heidfeld… they need a second driver with experience for Nico, he will be No. 1 at Merc
Icthyes
16th November 2009, 12:56
Seconded. He’d be a better partner for Hamilton as well.
Prisoner Monkeys
16th November 2009, 12:56
Hmmm, Jenson Button, 2009 World Champion with seven victories to his name.
Nick Heidfeld, he German guy no-one can remember with no race wins and no championships.
Really, Meredes should do everything in their power to keep Button. Even if they only want him because he’ll have the number one on the car. Because without them, they’ll be doomed to carry the 25 and 26 …
TommyB
16th November 2009, 13:03
If Heidfeld was in the Brawn he’d have 7 wins to his name.
Heidfeld beat Massa, Kimi, Webber, Kubica and has never been in a top team
Paul Owen
16th November 2009, 15:17
I think you are all Crazy people (in the nicest possible way).
With respect where was NH last year when RK was fighting for the championship throughout the season? Grumpy, inconsistent and over rated IMHO.
I do think that is dreadful the way Brawn and Mercedez have treated JB. He gave up a lot for that team and now it seems he’s to be dismissed out of hand.
Personally I would LOVE to see JB and LH at McLaren next year. Sure if it came down to the numbers LH would have a team preference but until then they would be allowed to fight for the championships. I think technically you couldn’t ask for more. One driving style is all gung ho aggression and the other fluid and smooth. McLaren could clean up because of the two differing styles.
PJA
16th November 2009, 15:35
While I wouldn’t rank Heidfeld in the top tier of current F1 drivers, I don’t think he is a bad driver. Before this season I would probably have ranked him in the same group as Button, Webber, Rosberg and some others.
I understand why some may rate Kubica higher than Heidfeld because of where they are at in their careers so the argument would be Kubica has more potential, but even so he hasn’t blown Heidfeld away while they were teamates, if Heidfeld hadn’t let Kubica through in Canada Heidfeld would have probably won the race, and a lot of Heidfelds problems last year were issues he had with qualifying, his race pace was good, sort of like Button in the latter half of this season.
Wesley
16th November 2009, 21:30
You said it Tommy!I can’t understand how so many people overlook Heidfeld’s talent.He “for sure” could bring in the steady points if not win.
PJA
16th November 2009, 13:18
I think if Mercedes didn’t have Button next they would have the numbers 3 & 4 as reigning Constructors Champions as Renault did in 2007 after Alonso left, still I agree that you would have thought Mercedes would prefer the number 1 on their car.
Ed
16th November 2009, 13:33
If they lost Button, I don’t think they would be 2nd in pitlane, as when teams are taken over (like Brawn with Honda), they are sent down the pitlane.
PJA
16th November 2009, 13:56
I think it depends on how the takeover is classed, for example when BAR became Honda in 2006 they had the numbers 11 & 12.
When Stewart became Jaguar in 2000 Jaguar had the numbers 7 & 8, and then when Jaguar became Red Bull in 2005 they had the numbers 14 & 15.
I think when Honda left last year they had said they were withdrawing, so Brawn were effectively a new team although I think some concessions may have been made such as allowing them the TV money Honda would have received.
If Sauber are allowed to race next year this is probably what will happen to them as they had to reapply and so will probably be classed as a new team, whereas Brawn will still own part of the Mercedes team next season.
Xanathos
16th November 2009, 14:20
Brawn was sent down the pitlane because their entry got accepted as a “new team”. They had to do this because a team is only allowed to change its name every five years, and BAR became Honda in 2006, only three years before.
However, I don’t know if a new team may change their name earlier (see Stewart -> Jaguar) or if they only introduced this rule during this decade.
But if they will be sent down the pitlane and the teams continue their renaming/selling game over the winter, the new teams will get lower and lower numbers…I think USF1 (as the first accepted new entry) will already get 18&19….
luigismen
16th November 2009, 17:51
I dont think that’s true, about the name change… see Jordan, Spyker, Midland and Force India, all that in about 4 or 5 years
Spud
16th November 2009, 13:50
Sorry to be picky but wouldn’t it be
26 & 27??
Kav
16th November 2009, 15:37
A year ago it would have been, hmm, Jenson Button, a British guy no one can remember with one sole win to his name.
I think Heidfeld is better than Button, okay Button may be a world champion now, but who knows what might have happened if he did join for this year when he had an offer..
Also in another post you said why hasn’t he ended up in a top car after 10 years? Well Button wasn’t picked up by a top team, Honda were one of the worst teams last year and no top team picked him up. He was fortunate that this years car was amazing.
Ads21
16th November 2009, 12:55
Heidfeld has beaten Massa, Raikkonen, Webber and Kubica when they were his team mates. Heidfeld is a top quality driver and has deserved a race winning car for years.
I think Rosberg and Heidfeld will be a good line up, with Heidfeld to outscore Rosberg.
Prisoner Monkeys
16th November 2009, 13:05
Massa: consistent challenger for title in 2007 and 2008.
Raikkonen: won plenty of races for McLaren, 2007 World Champion.
Webber: quarterbacking Red Bull’s efforts.
Kubica: … Okay, I’ll give you that one. But Kubica broke his duck well before Heidfeld.
Heidfeld is nowhere. Drivers don’t get good cars because they’ve been in the sport for a long time. They get good cars because they’ve shown themselves as talented drivers. If Heidfeld was half as good as you made him out to be, he’d have been taken on to McLaren or Ferrari or even the 1005/6 Renaults a long time ago. It’s pretty telling that he isn’t anywhere. Plus, there’s nothing he can offer Mercedes that Button can’t bettr.
Ads21
16th November 2009, 13:17
“But Kubica broke his duck well before Heidfeld.”
Anyone who remembers anything about that race in Canada will know that Kubica only won because Heidfeld let him past for a team 1-2. If Heidfeld had kept Kubica behind as he had done to Alonso he would have won the Grand Prix.
“Drivers don’t get good cars because they’ve been in the sport for a long time.”
No they get them because they’ve shown they deserve them, Heidfeld has clearly done that by beating every team mate he has come up against, including the highly (over)rated Kubica. People have underestimated Heidfeld for far too long and it would be poetic justice if he got a race winning car in a Mercedes team whilst Renault produce another dog for Kubica.
Prisoner Monkeys
16th November 2009, 13:26
Then why hasn’t he ended up in a good car in ten years? And what does he bring that Jenson Button can’t offer?
I admit, it would be delightfully ironic if both Button and Heidfeld ended up in Mercedes …
Penelope Pitstop
16th November 2009, 13:26
Agreed, PM. Heidfeld is getting too much credit. Being around for a long time doesn’t warrant a drive with a top team (I know we’d all like to forget Luca Badoer, but as the cliche goes, those who do not remember history…). They’re mad to let Button get away in the first place, but if an all-German lineup is their aim, Glock would’ve been the better choice, I think. He’s got qualifying issues, but he’s one hell of a fighter, and he may not have any wins, but unlike BMW, no other driver ever got a win out of a Toyota, either.
NomadIndian
16th November 2009, 14:10
Who could honestly say that Button is better than Heidfield before this season.
All it takes is one good season with a good car to change your reputation.
Patrickl
16th November 2009, 15:11
Indeed, look at Massa. The guy had one reasonable season where he narrowly missed the WDC in teh fastest car. Now all of a sudden he’s supposed to be a top driver.
Heidfeld has always been a good driver, but has the bad fortune of not being the best. Just like Button and Kubica I guess. They normally don’t get top material, but just below that. Obviously Button got lucky and he could show that he at least is a very good driver. Still not the top, but at least significantly better than Vettel, Barrichello and Webber.
steph
16th November 2009, 14:27
I’m late for the debate
:PHeidfeld definately underrated mainly because of his personality I feel. He may be a crazy dancer but he is quite quiet and so is often overlooked.
He has beaten many rated drivers as teammates (I don’t read to much into Massa and Kimi as they were relatively new to f1 but the fact is he has beaten Kubica which says a lot) and has had some nice ontrack battles. He deserves the drive in my opinion
Pat
16th November 2009, 19:30
Ross Brawn tried to sign Heidfeld for this year but Heidfeld turned him down so they stuck with Barrichello
John H
16th November 2009, 13:36
Won’t Mercedes have 22&23 or something similar as ‘Brawn’ are the constructors champions and not ‘Mercedes GP?’
Pat
16th November 2009, 19:32
the No1 plate goes with the driver not the team
Nitpicker
16th November 2009, 13:36
I think you guys are missing the point. Surely Jenson was waiting for this announcement so that he can cash-in big on a massive Mercedes salary?
Ads21
16th November 2009, 13:42
Yer thats what i thought as well, thats why I was talking of Heidfeld going to ‘a mercedes team.’ Although apparently Mercedes GP aren’t interested in Button and would rather have the German super team of Heidfeld and Rosberg.
Nitpicker
16th November 2009, 13:49
Pish. The idea that a prestigious factory team (as Mercedes GP will be) is not interested in a smart, marketable, reigning champion is preposterous.
Leon
16th November 2009, 14:16
‘Und now we will all stand to attention and sing Deutchland Uber Alles’
Hallard
16th November 2009, 20:17
I certainly wouldnt call Rosberg and Heidfeld a “german super team”. Neither have even won a race.
Hakka
16th November 2009, 12:23
The webpage title says: “Jenson Button out of Brawn | Mercedes buy team”
The title of this post says: “Mercedes Grand Prix take over Brawn for 2010 – but what about Jenson Button?”
The text of the post says: “But it remains to be seen whether they will keep world champion Jenson Button in the team.”
Only 2 of the 3 are well-aligned.
Fascinating stuff.
PottedShrew
16th November 2009, 12:26
Very interesting developments…however under no circumstances will the colour scheme be Orange…I would imagine Vodafone would have a small problem with that!!:-)
GMac
16th November 2009, 12:27
Watch Roseberg go, he’s v.fast & must now shine if he gets even a decent package.
Great news for McLaren, bring it on Lewis & the other guy!! Go Woking..
Achilles
16th November 2009, 12:59
Gmac, It would appear that Rosberg wasted his chances with the Williams car, which was very good, The brawn car had little development in the second half of the season, and it was by no means the class of the field, Brawn will not get a golden opportunity twice with some clever loophole, so it will be down to Rosberg to shine. it would appear that the team bosses are not that impressed with Button, it is beginning to look like the way Hill, and Mansell before him, were treated after they became champions.
Nitpicker
16th November 2009, 13:54
I’ve never heard such guff. Brawn & Co are not impressed with Button?! Williams had a very good car?!
For your information, Williams had planned to replace Damon Hill before he became champion, not t’other way round.
Furthermore, Brawn’s team will continue to impress. They have a great team and that doesn’t change no matter what the rules say. Understandably they might not have such a huge advantage at the beginning of 2010, but that doesn’t mean they will wither to Honda 2008-esque performances either.
Achilles
16th November 2009, 17:47
Oh sorry Nitpicker, Just my opinion, It’s no longer Brawns team, they may impress with the kind of support that Mercedes can bring, but it will be the ‘Mercedes’ team. Hey I thought Williams had a good car, Rosberg had some great quali laps, and race laps, he made some errors which cost him some great finishes, so did the team. We only know what the media tell us, and what ghost writers put in print, replacing Hill may well have been on the cards prior to his championship, but I would’nt call it a fact. Williams was noted for his contempt toward his drivers, Mansell certainly found out very publicly, so as I am being fed all this media about Button, and his lack of contract, with anyone, rightly or wrongly I think he is either too dear, or that there are better options for team bosses, I know this ‘guff’ to be true,’cos the media say so…..lol.
rfs
16th November 2009, 12:27
So will both the McLaren and MercedesGP cars be silver?
KNF
16th November 2009, 12:40
McLaren: Silver and rocket red/McLaren orange,
Brawn: Silver and lime green/yellow?
GeeMac
16th November 2009, 13:19
Silver and lime green/yellow… is it just me or is that a vomit inducing thought?!?
KNF
16th November 2009, 17:25
A better looking scheme would be the Group C Sauber cars of the late 1980s…
Ned Flanders
16th November 2009, 13:41
I could see the Mclaren’s being all Vodafone red now, though I like their current livery. And I think it’s safe to say that Mercedes will be all silver/ grey, I think the green will be consigned to the dustbin (where it belongs!)
Ned Flanders
16th November 2009, 13:48
Actually forget that, I just read this on autosport.com:
PJA
16th November 2009, 14:02
I am glad McLaren are keeping their current livery as it is one of my favourites, but if McLaren were to change their livery don’t you think an all red Vodafone car would be too similar to Ferrari’s livery for McLaren, and obviously an Orange car wouldn’t work while Vodafone was title sponsor.
Ned Flanders
16th November 2009, 15:12
Good point, but if Mclarens were ever red it would probably be more of a day- glo, orangey red than Ferraris scarlet.
I can’t wait for the launches, there should be so many new liveries
John Edwards
16th November 2009, 21:43
Yep, i dont think they’ll change, the reason i say that is that Autosport is a crap source and I would not trust them with anything after some of the balls ups they’ve had over the last 5 years.
That aside, if they wanted to go to Orange I’m sure they could but how it would work with the Vodafone sponsorship is hard to imagine.
CRM
16th November 2009, 12:29
People will moan about losing a British team but the fact is that Brawn GP could not survive as an independent. They only did so well in 2009 because of the Honda money and resources and they would soon slip down the grid if they stayed fully independent.
I still think Button will stay with them and will be joined by Rosberg.
Michael
16th November 2009, 13:08
yes, because being bought out by a car manufacturer is guaranteeing survival.
until they get bored and close the team down of course
John H
16th November 2009, 13:38
hear hear Michael
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 14:25
Ditto.
Paddy
16th November 2009, 17:20
Not that I dont agree with the first bit of the post but do you not think ‘until they get bored’ is a bit harsh? I mean Toyota have been consistently rubbish but stuck with the sport until filing losses that would ruin a country! Honda same story.
Shagrathian
16th November 2009, 12:30
McLaren F1 TEAM! Cool indeed. Paint the car rocket red please! Also, Lewis & Jenson pair would be great!
Pat
16th November 2009, 19:38
Nah the car should be painted Spitfire colours with RAF Circles and everything :)
TommyB
16th November 2009, 12:32
“but what about Jenson Button?”
You sound like Legard Keith! :-P
Haggis Hunter
16th November 2009, 12:52
i think that the jensen/lewis situation would not be good for button as lewis is the golden boy. i also think alonso will win next year – best driver, best car
mm
16th November 2009, 14:07
At the moment it doesn’t look like Ferrari will have the best car … considering they will be developments of the season just passed.
If anything McLaren look promising, they will still be running the Mercedes engine too.
Hallard
17th November 2009, 17:02
Actually Ferrari has had to fundamentally redesign the car, starting from scratch, because the F60 was such a dog. But that isnt to say it will be good.
iBlaze
16th November 2009, 12:55
LOL! – “So it’s Mercedes from Brawn from Honda and Button’s got the championship at the minute, but will it be enough?” :D
Phil T
16th November 2009, 18:49
That would be funny if it had not just reminded me of how painful it is to listen to the man.
DRGP
16th November 2009, 12:32
Intriguing stuff. I’d love to see McLaren go back to the red and white livery like the old Malboro days :)
Pat
16th November 2009, 19:41
Nah Red White and Blue Union Jack styleeee and whoop the Silver Arrows butts :)….. or thinking about it all Red then the RED Arrows could whoop the Silver Arrows butts !!
luigismen
16th November 2009, 20:18
I would prefer the orange livery, like the test car they had… cool livery
TommyB
16th November 2009, 12:34
I hope Mclaren go Red and White – classic livery.
I really hope Heidfeld gets a top drive, he deserves it. He hasn’t even won a race and he’s beaten Massa, Webber, Kimi and Kubica
Lustigson
16th November 2009, 12:48
I hope they go for eithter rocket red/orange, or otherwise have a British racing green livery. :)
ajokay
16th November 2009, 17:08
They are McLaren and should be orange with Black highlights, as it were.
But they won’t be, which makes me sad.
Oasis
16th November 2009, 12:34
I’m just worried about Kimi. It doesn’t look too good at the moment. It would be great to have him at Mercedes GP with Nico.
verstappen
16th November 2009, 12:44
what if they unglue Vettel from red bull and red bull put skimi in their car?
verstappen
16th November 2009, 12:46
skimi = kimi
Nitpicker
16th November 2009, 13:47
Unlikely. Vettel is closely linked to Red Bull after they groomed him through the lower formulae. Vettel is also a star driver, Red Bull had the best car at the end of 2009, so the chances of them separating are remote.
Matt Fallon
16th November 2009, 17:56
Yeah, exactly the same here… F1 just wouldn’t be the same without Kimi for me. :(
Jonathan102
16th November 2009, 12:35
As a Button fan I would like to see Button to stay at Brawn/Merc GP. Because McLaren is Hamilton’s team, and Button will without a doubt be Hamilton’s #2. This would not end well.
TommyB
16th November 2009, 12:37
Button would be silly to go to a team that is built around 1 driver… but what other choice does he have?
Lustigson
16th November 2009, 12:51
How is McLaren “built around 1 driver”? It sure wasn’t built around Alonso in 2007, or around Häkkinen during his tenure there, or around Prost when Senna arrived. If Button would join McLaren for 2010, and he would be able to beat Hamilton, I bet the team would let him. And rightly so.
Dougie
16th November 2009, 13:07
Exactly, if McLaren develop the car somewhere between the 2 styles, so that Jenson can dial out any oversteer tendancies to have the neutral handling car he seems to prefer, and Lewis can dial in oversteer as he suits, then we should see a formidible combination and a fair fight to the flag.
Who do I think would win, I’d love to say Button, but I don’t know to be honest. I do think however it would be very close, closer than a lot of people think.
James_mc
16th November 2009, 19:02
History shows that McLaren have always favoured one driver – Prost>Lauda Senna>Prost Hakkinen>Coulthard, Hamilton>Kovalianen. [Although it could be argued that that was the “Ron” influence]
Hamilton has been at the team for the best part of a decade, he knows the staff and they know him. Quite simply, Button should have shelved his wage demands, been grateful that he landed in a great car and now he’d have a guaranteed seat at a well-backed team with highly competent staff.
Patrickl
16th November 2009, 15:13
Mercedes will be built around Rosberg. Button is going to be #2 wherever he goes.
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 16:29
the best point in the thread.
Ciaran
16th November 2009, 18:05
Agreed.
Ace
17th November 2009, 0:53
I think you’re right, but Merc would be less built around Rosberg than McLaren is around Lewis.
I’d like to see Button stay at Brawn/Merc and end all this mystifying ‘Rosberg is a future champion’ talk.
sato113
16th November 2009, 12:37
good for brawn. their car will still be competitive. however, i DON’T want to see Button and Hamilton in the same team. anyway, will be interesting to see who comes out on top… i’d bet on Hamilton.
TMFOX
16th November 2009, 12:37
I would have preferred for Brawn to have more of a chance to make a name for itself. Instead of being swallowed up by a huge name. (irrespective of the success Mercedes has had)
On the other hand it sounds interesting to see how Mclaren re-establishes itself as a true independent, assuming of course that they intend to do so.
Nitpicker
16th November 2009, 14:00
Yes I was hoping we’d see another battle of the independents in 2010.
Odd to think that McLaren has been known as the ‘factory Mercedes team’ for 14 years now, and soon they will become an independent team again.
TommyB
16th November 2009, 12:39
Strange things…
Honda has become Mercedes in 2 years – wouldn’t have predicted that one!
Brawn came into F1, won the world championship and have left :-P
Nitpicker
16th November 2009, 13:56
The team name ‘Brawn’ was just a name. The team personnel won’t drastically change from 2008-2009-2010.
Ned Flanders
16th November 2009, 18:21
Mental isn’t it! In fact it only took one year- this time last year it was still Honda
ARoss
16th November 2009, 20:47
Now THAT’s the best point in the thread!
Ferrero
16th November 2009, 12:42
So with Mercedes finally entering the sport as an actual constructor, what are the chances of BMW buying back in to compete? I would have to say quite high, given the rivalry between the two brands…
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 16:32
I would also say high too, as soon as they sort out some of their financial issues they will be back, could take a 2-5years though..
TommyB
16th November 2009, 12:45
http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1258374109.jpg
rfs
16th November 2009, 12:54
Blech
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 16:33
cool……. :)
AndrewT
16th November 2009, 12:49
basically, here are these two teams, with good prospects for next year, and there are of course a bunch of drivers that are linked with both teams, 3 out of 4 seats still to be filled.
Heidfeld, Rosberg, Räikkönen, Button – linked with both Brawn and McLaren, but one of them has to pick another team, as Hamilton occupies his place. i’m just eagerly waiting what’s gonna happen.
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 16:35
I predict Button gets a much better offer from Mercedes and stays there (x-Brawn team that is).
Mussolini's Pet Cat
16th November 2009, 12:51
Awful news.
hartry
16th November 2009, 12:54
I presume mercedes gp will still be based at the Brackley factory, which is only 5 miles from me?
K
16th November 2009, 12:57
It’s a bit of a shame that Brawn won’t defend their title although it’s kinda cool to have a “works” Mercedes team.
Guilherme Teixiera
16th November 2009, 12:57
Now, statistically wise, is Mercedes a new team and Brawn has become a “former team”? This would mean that Mercedes stats and numbers would be reseted to zero and Brawn would be frozen in history. Or will they keep their numbers from the 1950′?
Or is it just a rebranding and the Mercedes GP will keep the stats and numbers of Brawn GP? If so, will Mercedes run the number 3 and 4 cars if they don’t sign Button?
I know it is statistic ********, but I like this stuff :P
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 18:22
I still dunno why my description of Eddie Irvine isn’t being accepted by Keith :P
Just ask Ayrton Senna what he made of him!
Nitpicker
16th November 2009, 22:37
That is quite funny. Irvine sounds far too composed, so the whole thing must be made up.
Icthyes
16th November 2009, 12:58
I welcome this news and find it quite exciting. A works Mercedes team, adding a manufacturer back into the mix after Toyota pulled out, a manufacturer-friendly but ever-more independent McLaren becoming the British Ferrari, and best of all, the Maccas will stay silver!
The silver Brawn looks pretty awesome too.
Thandi
16th November 2009, 13:03
Mercedes GP, wow! can’t wait to see how they gonna do next year
I hope they put Kimi in the car, if not Nico
exciting stuff
sato113
17th November 2009, 2:56
i wish they’d just call it Mercedes. not ‘Mercedes F1 Team’ or ‘Mercedes GP’. we dont hear ‘Ferrari GP’!
Ulfuls
16th November 2009, 13:06
Although I congenitally loathe McLaren, it would be interesting to see Lewis and Jenson as teammates. The general consensus seems to be that Lewis would be eating Jenson’s lunch on every occasion, but I’m not so sure — I can see it being more of a Prost-Senna arrangement, with Lewis winning with raw pace, and Jenson taking wins with race-craft and points consistency.
When was the last all-British team (two drivers and team) by the way? Racking my brain but can’t come up with it.
But as many have said, I can’t think that anyone would want to step into Lewis’s team and hope to race on equal terms. For all Martin Whitmarsh’s twaddle about their drivers always being treated absolutely equally, it seems inconceivable that they haven’t promised the golden boy that they have been cultivating for the past decade that when it comes down to it, he will always have first access to development parts etc. Can’t imagine Jenson would feel comfortable in that situation. Then again, if Mercedes is preferencing Rosberg and shutting him out for not being German enough, he’s unlikely to feel very comfortable there either. Tough situation.
Jenson and Rubens, Williams 2011! There’s the solution!
Red Andy
16th November 2009, 13:23
For one race in 2005 BAR had Button and Davidson as their drivers.
As far as a whole season goes, I guess it would be Irvine and Herbert at Jaguar in 2000.
Nitpicker
16th November 2009, 22:41
Didn’t Damon Hill and Nigel Mansell race together at Williams for a few races at the end of the 1994 season? Coulthard stepped in after Senna was killed but was pushed aside after Mansell had won his Indycar championship and fancied some proper racing.
Lustigson
16th November 2009, 13:09
Keith, on a statistics’ note: does this news mean that the new ‘Mercedes Grand Prix’ team will have run as many as 12 Grands Prix, resulting in 8 pole positions, 9 fastest laps, 9 race wins, 139.14 WDC points, and as many as 0 (zero) WCC points?
GeeMac
16th November 2009, 13:11
I’m a bit saddened by this news. Ross Brawn and Nick Fry rescued their team from the ashes of Honda, turned them into World Champions, and then sold out to a big manufacturer. I’m so sad that Brawn are gone, they had a real “stick it to the big guys” attitude. Now they are going to be the big guys!
Also, if Jenson doesn’t sign for Mercedes GP and goes to McLaren, they won’t be able to run number 1 and 2. It’s quite a superficial thing, but it would have been nice to see the team that dominated the 2009 championship run with 1 and 2 in 2010. Also, Lewis, who would be the de facto number 1 in the team (regardless of what Martin Whitmarsh and the contracts say) would run in car number 2.
Also, if McLaren have Jenson and Lewis as their line-up for 2010, and Mercedes GP have Nico Rosberg and Nick Heidfeld, it won’t be long before the press turn the whole thing into an Anglo-German war!
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 14:05
Yeah! you are correct. We have daily mirror, guardian & the rest of the rubbish. They have BILD and the others :P
steph
16th November 2009, 14:31
It’s a bit odd. Mercedes want the German drivers to represent them but are really an internation company recognised around the world for road cars.
Mclaren privateer and very British so a British line up makes sense in that way. However, Mclaren also need to expand and get money from other outlets and sponsors and a British line up will just isolate them I feel. Not only that but a Kimi Lewis pairing would be much stronger in my view.
Steely Man
16th November 2009, 14:23
Will some of you people calm down! Brawn arn’t going anywhere just because Merc have bought a majority stake; the rosy independent constructor idea may have gone but the team have not. Have people forgotten that this year Brawn were still Honda, albeit sans a few hundred personnel.
KNF
17th November 2009, 2:04
Financially speaking, Brawn may have survived for maybe next year or 2011 if it stayed as a privateer, but over the long run, they need the resources only a manufacturer can bring.
Remember that even when it looked like they were running away with the championships earlier this year, they still had difficulty getting sponsors on board. Even some of the sponsors (e.g. Canon) were one-race deals, and Branson has changed his allegiance to Manor since…
Nitpicker
16th November 2009, 22:46
They did great to win both world championships this year, but I would hardly say they ‘dominated’ by winning the drivers’ by 11 points and the constructors’ by 18.5 points.
McLaren in 1988: that was domination. So to speak.
PJA
16th November 2009, 13:12
So after one season and winning both Championships the team name Brawn will disappear after only year in F1.
I would have preferred it if to start with at least the deal with Brawn was the same as the one with McLaren so we would have McLaren Mercedes and Brawn Mercedes, but I suppose from a business point of view it wouldn’t make much sense for Mercedes to own minority stakes in two teams.
If Mercedes relationship with Brawn is more to how it was with McLaren, supplying money and resources but letting Brawn run the show I see no reason why they can’t continue to be competitive, but if Mercedes try to interfere too much it could be a mistake.
I am glad McLaren are due to keep their Silver/Red livery as it is one of my favourites, if they had decided to ditch it then the colour would probably be largely dependent on sponsors so having an orange car with Vodafone as your title sponsor would never happen.
Alpha
16th November 2009, 13:12
If I am Mclaren, I would grab Rosberg. Not wise to have 2 British driver in a single team in terms of PR. You would like to have 2 different drivers to promote 2 different region and demographic. Button and Hamilton are too similar, and the same case for Rosberg and Heidfeld.
It make more sense to mix the 2 together. I seriously have double in Heifield. Kovalainen would be a nicer choice than Heidfeld.
What about Kimi and Button for Merc GP? and Hamilton and Rosberg for Mclaren? Maybe it sounds too ideal….
Anyhow, I just want to know asap!!!
Alpha
16th November 2009, 13:12
If I am Mclaren, I would grab Rosberg. Not wise to have 2 British driver in a single team in terms of PR. You would like to have 2 different drivers to promote 2 different regions and demographics. Button and Hamilton are too similar, and the same case for Rosberg and Heidfeld.
It make more sense to mix the 2 together. I seriously have double in Heifield. Kovalainen would be a nicer choice than Heidfeld.
What about Kimi and Button for Merc GP? and Hamilton and Rosberg for Mclaren? Maybe it sounds too ideal….
Anyhow, I just want to know asap!!!
DGR-F1
16th November 2009, 13:25
It looks to me as if Ross Brawn and Nick Fry are going to have to look elsewhere if they want to run their own team again. If the new outfit is going to be branded as ‘Mercedes’ then Norbert and his cronies are going to be in control and looking for those to blame when it all goes wrong.
You would have thought that Mercedes had learnt the lessons of BMW, Toyota and Renault this year, and purely stuck to being engine suppliers, but maybe its ego-expanding time in Germany, just in time for the Christmas bonuses and they have decided to give Ferrari a reason to stay racing.
As for Button possibly moving to an independent Mclaren, I say go for it, as we will be able to compare our recent Champions in the same car, and their WAGS can have a good chat during the race too….
Prisoner Monkeys
16th November 2009, 13:31
Actually, Brawn will remain as team principal.
DGR-F1
16th November 2009, 15:50
For the time being………
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 16:46
I would say for a long time until Brawn himself gets bored and decides to leave.
Brawn is by far the smartest team principal and strategist in the f1 community.
DGR-F1
17th November 2009, 17:24
So why has he given up the chance to be in complete control of his new team? It worked this year, so why not next year?
I can understand that to compete in F1 you need the cash, but why allow another company to own so much of what you have built up, and gained a reputation with? It won’t be the same with the Mercedes beanpickers and shareholders wanting their monies worth every single race. Look at how they affected McLaren’s performance, look at how Renault, BMW and Toyota have behaved towards their teams, look at the pressure Ferrari are always under.
This is a crazy move by Ross and Co. Its all downhill from here…..:(
Chaz
16th November 2009, 13:27
This is not unexpected but all the same very significant. I see McLaren will continue with the Mercedes powerplant until 2015 but personally I hope there are many an opt out clauses for McLaren. I’m glad McLaren, like Williams with BMW, never gave in too Mercedes’s past ‘takeover’ advances.
Additionally, I hope Mercedes will stay the course unlike BMW, Toyota, and quite possibly Renault being that the weak and fickle management and executives of these companies are purely making business and strategic decisions, and have about as much racing blood in their bones as a wooden rocking horse.
I wonder who owns the balance of the shares i.e. Ross himself being that he is team Brawn? Now I guess that in effect makes Ross Brawn an employee of Mercedes which seems a shame and quite a turn around, but that’s life as they say. What a lovely little pocket earner for Ross too though…
Kevin
16th November 2009, 16:02
Ross has to have made a lot of money out of this. Buying a team for a £1 (i know there was all the debts) and sold his shares as WDC and WCC. I dont think for one second that was his motivation. The man is a god when it comes to F1 in my view.
Chaz
16th November 2009, 20:26
Seems to me Jenson is playing a dangerous game by not having signed to a team by now. I personally don’t think McLaren is the team for him as Lewis is younger with more years ahead of him and he is arguably a better driver. Additionally I don’t think it helps sponsors who may want to expand to other markets. I think Jenson should stick with the team formally known as Brawn as they are likely to be financially one of the big power houses on the grid with the likelihood of a good car.
Another though is I hope Lewis has an opt out clauses should the Mercedes engines not prove worth keeping.
Also, how long do we think it will be before Vettel joins MercedesF1. Lets have a vote…
ARoss
16th November 2009, 20:55
Season 2011 maybe. For 2010 he’s to stay with RB for sure!
PJA
16th November 2009, 13:35
As for the driver line-ups, while neither team has an official No.1 driver policy, just because of both drivers history with the teams I would have said that McLaren was Hamilton’s team and what was Brawn was Button’s team. So it would be easier for the established driver at the team even if it was because they knew everyone at the team, how it worked and the characteristics of the car.
If he has the chance Button should stay at Mercedes as I just can’t see him consistently beating Hamilton if both were at McLaren, as for one thing the car will have been developed around Hamilton’s style of driving which won’t suit Button.
Personally I would like Button and Rosberg at Mercedes and Hamilton and Raikkonen at McLaren as long as it is the old fully motivated Raikkonen. But I wouldn’t mind Heidfeld in the other McLaren car if a deal couldn’t be reached with Raikkonen, as I think Heidfeld is underrated and would fit the bill as a reliable No.2 driver, Heidfeld would be the Coulthard to Hamilton’s Hakkinen/Raikkonen at McLaren.
Hakka
16th November 2009, 13:36
Really?
F1 Outsider
16th November 2009, 13:36
Anybody else stop and think about how much money Ross Brawn and Nick Fry are probably pocketing from this deal? They bought the team for pennies, literally… And now they sold it to none other than Mercedes-Benz. Wow!!!
Arun.India
16th November 2009, 13:41
Mostly kimi will sit at home with the 18 million ferrari paid him……button will puppet hamilton in mclaren and rosberg and heidfeld will be in mer f1 team…..
Stephen Simpson
16th November 2009, 13:41
Heidfeld is being used as a bargaining chip in negotiations: Raikkonen and Button are still in the best positions to get the McLaren and Mercedes drives, unless their negotiators get it wrong.
Rosberg will not be #1 driver – whoever is his team mate will get equal treatment.
Tim
16th November 2009, 13:44
A bargaining chip and a handy back up if either Button or Raikkonen fail to agree terms…
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 13:44
Muahahaha! Complete joke! Merc are shooting themselves in the legs. They will for sure, end up like BMW or Toyota. Manufactures imho must stick to supplying engines & leave the real racing to the real guys.
Poor McLaren :( :( were supplied with engines suffering from asthma, but now after all these years of sputtering & coughing, merc finally deserts them, just cuz they have somehow managed to manufacture reliable engines?? Until 2006 merc engine was the most unreliable engine in F1. Kept blowing up every few feet. It is cuz of mercedes that mclaren potentially lost the titles in 2000,2003,2004,2005!!
I have proof to substantiate my (some would call it) “OUTRAGEOUS” claim
The McLaren Mercedes partner ship began in 1995, since then this is what has happened:
1995: Agreed that mp4-10 was “The” most horrible looking,handling car ever built. It was supposedly designed by a supercomp! That needle nose was horrible & Mansell couldn’t fit his ass into its cockpit! But you can excuse mclaren, cuz this was post Senna. People were trying out differnt noses, front wing, safety elements etc. But Merc kept blowing up.
1996: Saw some instability, Marlboro was leaving, DC came in, chassis was decent but no match for Adrian Newey’s FW18. But merc still kept blowing up.
1997; Stunning livery. Initial chassis was designed by Neil Oatley, later in the season it was improvised by Newey himself. Won 3 races, but lost at least & due to merc blowing up! Most notably at nurburgring with Mika in the lead.
1998: Superb chassis, Won bot WDC & WCC. But had a fair number of blow ups. So did ferrari, so it was nullified.
1999: Remember Melbourne ? Both Mika & DC retired whilst leading a 1-2, that too on consecutive laps
merc let them down on numerous occasions that season.
2000: How can you ever forget US Gp!!! It was a death blow to mclaren. Mika was leading both the championship & the race when the merc blew up!! McLaren never ever recovered from that. Another Case of merc letting down mclaren again.
2001: Remember spanish gp? make retired on the last corner with a blown engine, painful. merc let down mclaren in crucial situations that year.
2002: Kimi blew up on numerous occasions, most notably in spa. But that Merc was underpowered compared to BMW & Ferrari.
2003: Can we ever forget that merc blowing up during the race at nurburgring?? It was such a crucial race for Kimi, but merc blew up again. kimi never had a chance since then on, even though he finished only 2 points behind scummy in the WDC.
2004: I won’t even talk about it :( just see for yourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRrjq8F9EVY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogC1w_RAnxU ( after his engine had failed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiKXCjMwamM
Also blew up at nurburgring, spain,monza
abysmal season. totally blame merc
2005: That year was destined to be McLaren’s & Kimi’s year.They had the most explosive combination in the form of Kimi & JPM. But merc had other plans :P Most of the time, Kimi started with a 10 place grid penalty & was always compromised. That MP4-20 was a monster. But Merc….
2006: One word- UNDERPOWERED
2007,2008&2009: Merc find a cure to their engine related problems & decide to dump mclaren! Traitors!
In 15 years of their partner ship you can fault McLaren at most 2 times(95 &96) but even then, merc was probably underpowered & unreliable.
I think mercedes leaving McLaren would be the best to to happen to them in the long term.
Only three teams exist to race in Formula One:
McLaren
Ferrari
Williams
the rest are noobies :P
Mahir C
16th November 2009, 14:16
Apart from the fact Mclaren designed trucks in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2009.
While talking about blow-ups, lets also talk about Mclaren pit crew screwing big time. Most notably in 2007.
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 14:21
Sorry, have to disagree Mahir. Adrian Newey was the technical director of McLaren during all those years that you’ve just mentioned. And we know how often he produces “Trucks”
Norbert Haug, himself has admitted to the fact that it was merc who’ve let down mclaren on numerous occasions.
Mahir C
16th November 2009, 14:37
I’m disputing that Merc failed too much. But come on, on those years Mclaren clearly wasnt up with Ferrari. Ok, they werent completely trucks but you,re compared to your rivals in F1.
you’re right about 2005 though, that year alone is enough for Mclaren to be fed up with Merc.
Lets see what Mclaren do with their own engine 2011 onwards.
Chalky
16th November 2009, 14:23
Didn’t Ron Dennis once say he’d rather have a quick but unreliable car than the other way round (i.e: reliable slow car)?
Maybe this mentality pushed the engines into that risk zone that caused the failures. Maybe the engines were being pushed harder to compensate for chassis design?
Tim
16th November 2009, 14:49
Jacques Villeneuve said something similar in 1999 when asked about his BAR-Supertec’s unreliability and replied that it was easier to make a fast car reliable than to make a reliable car fast. There’s an element of truth in that, not that BAR scored so much as a single point in 1999…
Not sure if Ron also said it separately.
mani
16th November 2009, 14:30
Indeed, you justified it really well :) I would love to see McLaren in Orange costume next year… looks unlikely, though!
steph
16th November 2009, 14:37
Right first off, and I probably shouldn’t say it as I’m not usually smug (mainly as I am usually wrong!) but when there was first speculation I did think ‘oh well Merc just want to expand into f1’ and thought nothing else of it. Then I found a little report about rumours about Mclaren wanting to buy from BMW and build their own engines. In fact I think I pasted the report in on this site on one of articles a few months back as I remember Mp4 commenting on it:S anyway from, then on I thought it won’t be sudden but Mclaren will eventually break away from Mercedes and I was shot down by my friends saying it will never happen.
:)For me, this will be great having a big name back. However, I also think Mclaren eventually having full independence is great and I know they can do well with it. It’ll be nice seeing a true Mclaren vs Ferrari fight.
sumedh
16th November 2009, 14:44
Somehow, at the end of the post, I found myself concluding that it is Adrian Newey’s cars that are most unreliable.
And looking at this year, that wouldn’t be a wrong conclusion.
He probably doesn’t do much for cooling the engine.
Anyways, that debate can be done in a different post :). But surely, unreliability follows Adrian Newey.
Ulfuls
16th November 2009, 15:00
Good point — Adrian Newey’s designs seem to be fast but fragile (for whatever reason). Remember as well the bits arbitrarily flying off the Red Bulls in Singapore and Japan. Whereas the Brawn (whoever designed it) was built like a (very fast) tank — Rubens losing his double diffuser in Melbourne and his front endplate in Abu Dhabi without any loss of pace, and sticking the back of the chassis back together with gaffer tape after shoehorning the Mercedes engine in.
Clearly the design team at Brawn seem to be able to build a car that will take punishment and hold its pace, whereas Adrian Newey’s cars, while more advanced technically (nose strakes, rear suspension, etc) seem to fall apart a bit more.
mani
16th November 2009, 14:57
IMHO, Brawn’s success is mostly due to their extra time and effort. Button’s first 6 wins came from a car that was over-developed while the rest of the grid were still trying to get in terms with the new regulation. When the rest of the grid came up, especially RBR and Mclaren they hardly matched them. They might have moved their efforts to 2010 already, but surely that didn’t justify their lack of performance in second half. Nevertheless, they did trade off their 2008 season for this result and they did deserve this championships (but at the cost of Honda)!
Mercedes’ way of partnering a good team on the grid and stay at the helm to have their say was not successful with Mclaren. They found a good way to do that, by branding the BGP with their name. They’ll succeed in having a team under their control, but it is highly unlikely that they’ll stay on the top of the table.
They may gain Ross’ technical advantage, but they’ll miss the entire Mclaren talent which can turn a dog of a car into a race winner in no time (and not to mention, without testing)! It’ll be hard time for Mercedes, I would love to see Mclaren with their old Orange livery… but from the news here, it looks unlikely! I think, 2010 would be a fight between Mclaren, RBR and Ferrari! No offense, I wouldn’t mind adding Brawn (Mercedes GP) there, but I doubt their development strategy under pressure!!!
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 16:52
But it wont entirely happen for the next 6 years!
Maciek
17th November 2009, 0:37
Groan, mp4. So your logic is that Mercedes taking the opportunity of having its own team AND committing to supplying McLaren at least through 2015 makes them evil? Sheesh.
theo
17th November 2009, 8:43
fantastic reply, they cost a lot of wins and championships! this year has been there stand out year and its gone straight to there heads.
Whats to say ferrari wont have the best engine next year, its more than likely, then wonder what evryone will think to merc…again. I cant forgive them for 2005! for that reason aloner they should have kimi to apologise
timmyM
16th November 2009, 14:04
on liveries –
McLaren obviously like the way their cars look at the moment (and who doesn’t – best one in my view).
But Merc want to be the Silver Arrows again.
So, expect this –
McLaren to become a metallic, gunmetal grey; plenty of contrast for red flashes, courtesy of their sponsor.
Mercedes to go real silver, a la 1955; proper brushed metal (even though the car is carbon fibre).
The difference will be very obvious, and both cars will be stunning to look at. (Although perhaps McLaren will have some heat absorption issues in places like Bahrain, Turkey, Hungary, Spain, etc.)
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 14:10
McLaren orange plz!
Prisoner Monkeys
16th November 2009, 14:15
Already confirmed they’re running red and silver.
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 16:54
yuck
Mahir C
16th November 2009, 14:07
Wow, who would have thought Ross Brawn and Nobert Haug in the same team. They were the arch rivals for most of 2000s and late 90s.
Should be an interesting combo though, calmly banana eating man and over-excited guy who can break pitwall with his bare hands.
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 14:16
Nice description Mahir. Actually Norbert Haug did actually “Break” something in the McLaren pit wall during the 2003 race at nurburgring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9UU0b8m7Us
And was that Rosberg cheering towards the end of the video? :P
wdf2
16th November 2009, 14:13
Any idea how much Mercedes and Aabar are paying for 75.1% of Brawn? And who is on the receiving end? I take it Brawn and Fry are significant $hareholder$, but what part, if any, does Honda still own?
shery
16th November 2009, 14:17
guys in all this contest?..where does kimi raikkonen stands,,kimi once said “just wait and see”..i believe in it and i think he will surely be in of the teams most probably brawn..
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 17:00
I hope and wish Kimi goes to the now called Mercedes team. It is very unlikely he will get equal treatment if he goes to McLaren. Kimi will be faster than Kovy and most likely as good as Hamilton but very high chance that he will be 2nd , especially in regards to upgrades/ car development
lynnduffy
16th November 2009, 14:20
Am I alone in having the words “Williams”, “BAR”, “contracts” and “karma” buzzing around in my head when I think about Jenson?
He’s fast when the car is right, but Hamilton can drive the wheels of a supermarket trolley. Head-to-head I’d see Hamilton destroying Button’s confidence in short order.
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 14:38
Yeah! Button is like a Labrador Retriever( I own one too) :)
Hamilton on the other hand drives his car like a Dobermann( used to own one)
I’d never allow Harry(my Lab), to mingle with Rocky(my old dobermann)
Consequences can be devastating :(
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 17:01
Agreed.
Hallard
16th November 2009, 20:58
Amen. With all due respect to the new world champion, you would have to be out of your mind to believe Button could hold his own against Hamilton on even ground.
Leaf
16th November 2009, 14:25
Brawn & Fry just got a ginormous payday!
Sij
16th November 2009, 14:30
hmm.. a Force India, an USF1 and a Malaysian Lotus.. now an all British Mclaren and an all German Mercedes.. wat nxt??
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 14:47
All Italian Ferrari? High time they start grooming their young talents.
Ulfuls
16th November 2009, 15:44
Fisi and Luca!
epi
16th November 2009, 17:22
Hahahahahaha, yeah I guess that didn’t work out so well…..
rampante
16th November 2009, 14:35
MP4 the stats you show pointing out a weakness in Mercedes engines shows to non Mclaren fans a weakness from Mclaren in not finding a reliable engine in 10 years, and no matter what colour you paint it it still goes at the same speed.Interesting times ahead.
sumedh
16th November 2009, 14:37
Great news. So Formula One is still attractive to few manufacturers. Ross Brawn himself said 2 days back, “Manufacturers will return to F1”. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80116
I assume Mclaren’s unwillingness to take Rosberg as Hamilton’s team-mate must have been the final straw in the partnership rocked recently by big controversies, spygate, liegate.
Having one full German team and one full British team doesn’t make sense to me. This is not A1 GP. Now with Mercedez money, they should be able to match Jenson’s pay demands. Button and Rosberg should make a fine team.
Mclaren can then snap up Kimi, Heikki, Nick, Kobayashi, whoever they want. Everyone stays happy.
And yes, “Brawn GP” will go down as the most successful team in Formula 1 History. Winning 8 out of 17 races. One more for the stats page, Keith.
CJD
16th November 2009, 14:39
It seems that the “Mercedes” may offer Rosberg more than Button to clear the way for an all German driver line-up. Button will go to McLaren with No 1 and his name in the record books with every chance of fair pay.
Nobody will be throwing teddies out of the pram other than Pa Hamilton whose power would be broken. Good for Lewis, good for McLaren and the team members who must be fed up with Pa (and Norbert Haug).
McLaren need the Constructors championship. Both drivers will drive their hardest, neither will play dirty. Mclaren never have favoured one driver. Strong team.
We get strong pairings at Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull. Weaker pairings at Williams, Renault and Honda/Brawn/Mercedes but capable of upsets on the day.
McLaren may develop their own engine in time by engineering skills rather than the Mercedes route of buying Ilmor.
Great racing for 2010. Bare rims thereafter.
Zack
16th November 2009, 19:04
With Ron Dennis making come-back(?), don’t expect ‘equality’ :p
KNF
17th November 2009, 2:07
With Ron coming back, don’t expect the English language either… :D
theo
16th November 2009, 14:47
what if modern f1 iwth out this guy….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_2dOAJd2dg&feature=related
has everyone ofrgot this talent?
Patrickl
16th November 2009, 15:39
Yeah, it’s sad how quickly people forget how great some of the drivers are. Put them in a poorly performing car for a few races and the drivers get completely trashed on.
three4three
16th November 2009, 16:23
Agreed. I’m still confident that Kimi will be on the grid next year, hopefully alongside Lewis, and probably win Spa again too. He’s not finished with F1 just yet!
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 17:43
One of the best qualifying performance by Kimi. He was carrying twice the fuel of Alonso. Really marvelous.
It would be a shame to see him retire.
Just hope he comes back to where he belongs & make Ferrari regret each & every second.
Maciek
17th November 2009, 0:46
All well good, I used to be a fan too, but if he’s still capable of performing at that level, how do you explain Massa driving better?
Bartholomew
16th November 2009, 14:47
I would have preferred Alonso to drive for Mercedes instead of the Spaghetti Special team.
The new Mercedes team will do well. This is very exciting !!!
Matthew
16th November 2009, 14:47
Jense should stay with Ross. He’s far better than Rosberg, and given a winning car he will become a 2x WDC. On the other hand, going to McLaren will be the end of his glory career.
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 15:02
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80172
Merc renews McLaren’s engine deal until 2015.
How can that happen if the mp4-12c, which is slated to hit the market somewhere in 2011 is a direct competition to the Mercedes super car?
PJA
16th November 2009, 15:10
According to the BBC News article on the subject the McLaren engine deal with Mercedes isn’t just a normal customer engine deal either
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8362295.stm
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 15:22
What are the chances of merc supplying “Second Class” engines to McLaren?
I’d say very high.
Patrickl
16th November 2009, 15:48
How would you define “second class” engines? The engines have to be homologated. There can be no deviations from the original engine spec can there?
On the other hand, Red Bull were praising Renault and Total for their work in improving stability, reliability and fuel efficiency of their engine since Italy.
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 17:10
lol … :), that would be something wouldn’t it.
But that would Never happen. Look at Renault and Red bull. It would not be in best interest for Mercedes to do that in any way or form.
McPhil
16th November 2009, 17:30
According to the article on Autosport, it is at a cost –
So it looks like it is just a normal customer deal…
mani
16th November 2009, 15:10
it is a statement from 2009, they’ve plenty of time (6 more yrs) to break it… this is F1 we’re talking about :) The caption from the movie ‘The Recruit’ suits F1 better, — “nothing is what it seems”.
DMW
16th November 2009, 16:30
Something tells me both Mercedes and McLaren will move every single copy of their supercars at pretty much whatever price they want. There are enough members of the Saudi royal family to go around.
Maciek
17th November 2009, 0:50
It’s called non-competition. The people who can afford one of those cars, can well afford them both.
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 15:35
If Mercedes are so particular about “Nationality” of their drivers, they should choose a pure blood German :P
Not someone who has Finnish blood. Maybe they could tempt Scummy out of retirement, just like what Ron Dennis did to Niki Lauda ;)
There is a high possibility of that happening, cuz its Mr R.Brawn who’s the team boss :P
After all it was Mercedes who gave Scummy a break into motor sports & if I am not mistaken, he had a binding contract or something to return back to Mercedes at their demand.
That never materialized cuz Scummy was apprehensive to partner Hakkinen in the same car. That’s all in the past.
Steph posted something very interesting in the forums:
Scummy for Mercedes :———>>>> Any Aye’s??
Patrickl
16th November 2009, 15:44
They might wait for Vettel to become available. Give the kid a few more years at Red Bull to work out all the flaws. Then he should be good enough for a top team to really challenge for the WDC (assuming Brawn with Merc money will be able to stay a top team).
ARoss
16th November 2009, 21:05
Ever thought about Vettel going for the WDC next season driving an RB car? Maybe he doesn’t give a toss about his high- profile competitors McLaren, Merc etc. I watched his performance in Abu Dhabi, impressing how mature and cool this guy already is for his young age!
DMW
16th November 2009, 15:48
Nay.
To partner Hamilton? You must be joking. If so Schumacher’s contract would require Hamilton’s car to be fueled only with kerosene and for Nicole S. to be banned from jumping and clapping.
PJA
16th November 2009, 15:54
I think he meant Schumacher at Brawn Mercedes as part of an all German lineup.
While I think Schumacher wouldn’t return to F1 with anyone other than Ferrari, it would be quite funny if he did return with Mercedes considering Ferrari are pushing for third cars just so they can run Schumacher.
Hallard
16th November 2009, 17:46
It’ll be a sad day if they ban Lewis’ girlfriend from jumping and clapping :)
ARoss
16th November 2009, 21:07
another season without WDC and she’ll be gone anyway…
waw
3rd December 2009, 5:03
whatta goldigger..hahaha
steph
16th November 2009, 16:18
Lol Thanks for mention mp4. Maybe Schuey is off to the FIA for a job ?
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 17:15
In fact I was gonna say exactly that. It is more likely that schumy will play a role as an F1 Commissioner to FIA or something. Which would be worse for mp4 wouldn’t it lol :)
BUT, on the other hand, if Schumy decides that he is seeking a drive, he will have no problems :)
gazzap
16th November 2009, 15:40
May have been covered in the comments, but would Brawn Mercedes become a German team? would they play the German national anthem after a win?
PJA
16th November 2009, 15:50
While I haven’t read it anywhere yet I can’t see why the German National Anthem wouldn’t play if Mercedes (Brawn)won as they own most of the team even if it will still be based in Britain.
Afterall the Austrian National Anthem plays for Red Bull, although didn’t the organisers play the British National Anthem by mistake when Red Bull got their first win?
James_mc
16th November 2009, 19:14
RBR are based in Britain but are registered as Austrian. Hence the error with the British anthem
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 17:16
I would say “yes”.
DMW
16th November 2009, 15:41
Haug has been signalling his threats for a while. He has been relentlessly running down Kovalainen in the press or ignoring him, and praising the Wonderful Partnership to the heavens. Lewis accomplished this, the team that…. Haug clearly has had orders from Stuttgart to put a deustchen Typ in that second car by hook or by crook. And so we have it; but they are making a mistake.
McLaren have proven that they consistently are the second best operation in the sport and able to challenge for championships with reliable engines. Red Swill, the only other real racing team and likely contender, is not for sale. (And I’m sure Newey would again fly the coup before coming again under Mercedes’ thumb anyway.)
If Mercedes thinks they can somehow create a team that will consistently beat McLaren and Ferrari by dumping cash on it, they are deluded. Obviously, they think their six-sigma black belts are better than Toyota’s and Honda’s and Renault’s. But corporations always think their culture is superior.
What is Haug going to tell the board next year when McLaren is beating down the factory team and their golden-haired native sons?
gazzap
16th November 2009, 15:59
DMW, true but Mercedes will have Ross Brawn. The guy is a genius. I think it will make for another interesting year.
mani
16th November 2009, 16:52
@gazzap: Agreed, but Ross Brawn can’t match the entire Mclaren talent. If I can, I would love to see what the BGP001 would have been if they had the opportunity only to spend as much money and time as the other teams had. I’m sure Ross Brawn would have managed a good car, but not this good to lead the pack!
George
16th November 2009, 18:20
Remember Williams was once the forerunning independant team though, and look where they are now
Jess
16th November 2009, 16:25
This is shaping up to be an intersting off season.
steph
16th November 2009, 17:05
Thankfully! It gives us something to talk about when there is no racing. 117 days…
:(GeeMac
17th November 2009, 6:26
Urg, did you have to remind us that we have 117 days to go… seems like forever!
Luiz
16th November 2009, 16:57
How To Make Millions in 5 simple Steps- A true Story by Ross Brawn.
1- Get Someone else to pay for your car’s development, if possible about €250 million.
2- Hope that Someone pulls out of F1 and leave you with a car that has been in development for nearly 10 months.
3- Convince the previous to ‘give’ you the car and the team. Better Still, convince them to pay for you to race the following year. anything above €50 million is welcome.
4- Use that opportunity to win both championships.
5- Sell 75.1% of the team that cost you nothing for millions to a car manufacturer.
Maksutov
16th November 2009, 17:19
do it then.
TMAX
16th November 2009, 20:16
@Luiz you Missed one point in the list.
– Build a brilliant race winning car and win both the championships with 2 average drivers and no sponsors.
Do you think Mercedes or anybody would have come forward to buy them if they have not shown the stellar performance of this year.
aguy
16th November 2009, 17:03
I still believe dat Mclaren would gain more wid KIMI rather than wid Button. I wonder if Button would succeed dere, better stay wid Brawn
StrFerrari4Ever
16th November 2009, 17:12
Brilliant :D My Favourite Car Manufacturer finally has it’s own team to run with the majority of control! This just makes the 2010 season seem like a feast waiting to be served to us fans can’t wait.
steph
16th November 2009, 18:31
Will you switch support or stay with STR? lol
GeeMac
17th November 2009, 6:28
Will you change your name to “MercedesGrandPrix4Ever”? ;-)
gazzap
16th November 2009, 17:13
Button will always be in Hamiltons shadow at Mac.
Hallard
16th November 2009, 17:28
This will be much more humorous if mercedes becomes the next manufacturer to leave the sport and Ross Brawn leads a second management-buyout of the team :)
But I really do like the look of the livery; silver with naked carbon fiber. I always wonder why more teams dont use naked carbon fiber composite as part of their liveries.
McPhil
16th November 2009, 17:33
Probably because it costs extra to make it look pretty, so they might as well paint it.
Williams used a bit of “naked” carbon fibre on their cars this year though…
Hallard
16th November 2009, 21:12
Its just a matter of applying a clear-coat over the resin, instead of paint/primer. I cant imagine it being that expensive to do. Although it would just look dark-gray to TV audiences (especially since F1 is still not broadcast in HD) so maybe thats got something to do with it. Still a shame, because in my opinion it looks fantastic.
GeorgeK
16th November 2009, 17:30
A heavy decision for the M-B team: Do we keep the reigning driver’s champ or go with 2 German pilots? Seems a no-brainer to me, especially if $$$$ are no longer an issue. Keep the champ and pay him his due, bring in Nico and have him push Jenson for all he’s worth. If I were Jenson, I’d stay the course with MB if the pay is there for the taking.
Nick is past his sell date.
The fly in the ointment is McLaren: I believe they will pay Jenson more then Brawn/MB is willing, just to steal their thunder and have 2 Brit WC’s on the grid the next year. I hope Jenson can stand up to the pressure of competing against the family bred and favored driver. Tough spot to be in, but I think Button has come a long way in the past ten years and can beat Hamilton, all things being equal.
And next year will be a new game, with no refueling.
Anon
16th November 2009, 17:34
Is no-one else worried Jenson could be without a drive?
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 17:39
Me! That will mean Rosberg will end up with a big fat 0 on his nose cone :P
Mercedes F1 Team
Rosberg 0
Heidfield 2
John H
16th November 2009, 18:39
Reminds me when Hill had to drive that Arrows.
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 18:52
You mean Williams?
GeeMac
17th November 2009, 6:33
Hill used number 1 at Arrows…
http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/images/1997/arrows-a18.jpg
con
16th November 2009, 18:02
are maclaren getting a new engine
George
16th November 2009, 18:08
Raikkonen to McLaren, Heidfeld to Brawn, Button to BTCC please!
Lucas.M
16th November 2009, 19:38
Button to do touring cars? That is the most unlikley thing to happen until Jenson gets into his late 30s
Adam Tate
16th November 2009, 18:12
If money were no option, I’d almost expect to see a bidding war for Kimi’s services next season. In either the McLaren of the Mercedes (Brawn) he would fly. But if he doesn’t make it, the seats will and should go to Heidfeld and Jenson. I’d rather see the all german lineup at Mercedes as I think Nick and Nico would compliment eachother nicely and both would finally get much deserved first wins. Going into this last season I felt both of them along with Webber were the drivers most deserving of a win that had not got one yet. Jenson would really be tested against Lewis though. Anyone’s best hope to compete with the Massa/Alonso juggernaut at Ferrari would have to be a Lewis/Kimi pairing because sparks would fly.
richard
16th November 2009, 18:13
If Mercedes have bought 45.1% of Brawn from Daimler and 30% from Aabar; when did they buy their respective stakes in Brawn. You say that Aabar held the Daimler stake to start with so does that mean Aabar bough 75.1% per cent to then sell 45.1 on to Daimler who have now transferred that to Mercedes. The question is still when did Aabar buy 75.1% of Brawn and from whom, Mr R. Brawn or Mr. Honda. My guess is the Aabar deal went through about the time Brawn turned down Virgin’s money as not enough and Branson suggested Brawn were ‘now’ too expesnive. That was way back before the summer, which means the McLaren relationship must have been going wronf for quite some time. If the ideal driver line up for any team is a super fast championship contender supported by a nealry as fast mature an experienced car set up expert then neither Rosberg nor Heidfeld are proven in these roles. I know Jenson was not viewed as a champion 12 months ago but he had won a GP and qualified on pole. Rosberg has done neither.
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 18:29
Merc have always wanted a German race winning driver & never got one during their partnership with mclaren.
Jochen Mass is too old. So leaves us with 2 options.
Schumi & Vettel. Wouldn’t be too surprised if either one turns up to drive for them.
And these numbers really confuses me.
lynnduffy
17th November 2009, 1:38
Daimler is the parent company of Mercedes-Benz. Daimler/MB bought 45% from Brawn, Fry et al, while 30% was purchased by Aabar, which in turn owns 9% or so of Daimler (the largest single shareholder). The price being bandied around for the 75% is around £75m, of which Ross Brawn got around half. Handy money.
Business is so incestuous. :)
IDR
16th November 2009, 18:25
A multimillionaire Japanese design under a British Team manager specifications, who took an advantage thanks to Max personal interests, funded now by Arab interests and wearing a great (and historic) German Livery.
Every time I see that pic, the car looks like a threatening champion!!!
Button, try to downsize your (economic) pretensions and stay with them…
Special thanks to Mr. “ERROR 500” who was busy with others during a few minutes, allowing me to post something…. ;-)
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 18:33
LOL!! :P
I’d typed a page long comment(25 min continuous) clicked the “submit comment”
Only to find Mr “Error 500” to greet me. 8)
KNF
17th November 2009, 2:19
Copy and paste into/from Notepad, works for me…
Lucas.M
16th November 2009, 18:44
Button is almost definetly going to McLaren with Hamilton, Mercedes might be made up of two Germans, Nico Rosberg and Nick Heidfeld
gaz
16th November 2009, 18:49
i predict tears in paradise by next june!!!!
should be fun….
artramulo
16th November 2009, 19:08
merce-f1 team?
cool, its about time for them to compete with ferrari for real
f1 gonna b as excitin as ever
many fallen f1 ex- champs (alonso, obama-f1-driver-of-uk) to prove themselves
car makers ( ferrari, mercedes, lotus-proton, renault) to give their best
and to forget
sore losers at the back of the grid and every finish lines
lol
matt
16th November 2009, 19:10
The loss of Brawn makes me sad. Me stat though, surely Brawn is the only team to win the championship on its first, last, and only attempt. (Vanwall won in 1958 and didn’t enter a full season again, but did enter a few individual races).
Lucas.M
16th November 2009, 19:18
No need to worry, this is like BMW buying Sauber, it was still named Sauber but with BMW as their real name
rampante
16th November 2009, 19:18
to all the error 500’s. Copy your comment before posting saves a hell of a lot of time.
ashes1991
16th November 2009, 19:27
I am really disappointed to hear this, I hope that Button goes to McLaren now and the too germans end up at Mercedes GP.
I am not a fan at all of the germans specially after Schumacher, I think after his cheating ways he spoiled F1. Its also quite ironic because I loved Brawn GP and what happened to them, and now this coming season I will hate the new team with a passion.
Really disappointed for Ross Brawn
Maciek
17th November 2009, 1:02
Do tell us, are there other multi-million strong groups of people you are not a fan of because one of them did something that displeased you?
ashes1991
17th November 2009, 21:46
Yh you are one of them! BUt u obviously dont have a multi-million strong group of people behind you and if you cant say that Schumacher ever did anything wrong at all look at wen he took hill out or perhaps when he took villeneurve out
ashes1991
16th November 2009, 19:33
I think its also disgusting that there not interested in Button because they dont want to pay him £6m plus yet there willing to bring the biggest cheat F1 has ever seen back in Michael Schumacher and are willing to pay up £20m, probably because he is a German
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 19:51
I was hoping for mclaren to terminate their engine deal with merc with immediate effect & buy the defunct BMW powerplant, but….
McLaren have taken a very bold decision to make engines on their own for their mp4-12c supercar. I think its the correct way forward.
Merc are a bunch of noobies. Never knew some of their personnel include some of the dumbest brains on the planet. The ONLY reason Brawn did so well was cuz Honda invested everything they had to offer back in 07. The brawn probably is the most expensive car ever made in f1 history. It is said that honda were running 5 wind tunnels 24X7 for over 2 years. Are merc so naive to be thinking this brawn domination will continue forever??
This is gross injustic!! They’ve been supplying mclaren, crappy engines for the past 15 years!! They’ve used mclaren as some sort of a Guinea pig for sorting out their engine reliability problems.
ashes1991
16th November 2009, 20:53
Ino I dont understand y they didnt terminate there engine deal, and am pretty sure that in the coming seasons, i.e. 2011, 2012…etc we will see a McLaren car which is powered by a McLaren engine, would be pretty sweet, especially knowing its british engineering
:D
steph
16th November 2009, 21:03
It’s better this way. The Mercedes engine has been very strong this year so should be next year and it gives Mclaren vital time to get their engines built and hopefully competitive
mp4-19b
16th November 2009, 19:36
Actually I wouldn’t call the McLaren-Mercedes a grand success at all. In 15 years of their partner ship all that they’ve managed is 60 victories out of around 250 odd races, so their success ratio is less than 25%. meanwhile with honda as their engine partners in the late-80’s & early nineties mclaren achieved 44 victories out of 80 races, winning 55% of the time. After all these years of partnership with mercedes all mclaren have to show is 3 WDC & 1 WCC. so this partnership isn’t a “grand” success at all.
rmac923
16th November 2009, 19:45
Well this really screws up my 2010 grid predictions.
So Now…
McLaren:
1. Jenson Button
2. Lewis Hamilton (c)
Red Bull:
3. Sebastian Vettel (c)
4. Mark Webber (c)
Ferrari:
5. Felipe Massa (c)
6. Fernando Alonso (c)
Williams:
7. Rubens Barrichello (c)
8. Nico Hulkenberg (c)
Renault: (If they stay)
9. Robert Kubica
10. Heikki Kovalainen
Force India:
11. Adrian Sutil
12. Vitantonio Liuzzi
Toro Rosso:
14. Sebastien Buemi (c)
15. Jaime Alguersuari
Toyota US F1:
16. Kamui Kobayashi
17. Sebastian Bourdais
Campos Meta:
18. Bruno Senna (c)
19. Vitaly Petrov
Virgin Manor GP:
20. Timo Glock
21. Anthony Davidson
Lotus F1
22. Jarno Trulli
23. Lucas Di Grassi
Mercedes:
24. Nico Rosberg
25. Nick Heidfeld
Sauber doesn’t get a spot, Kimi to WRC. I think?
Brawn
16th November 2009, 19:46
great so i have 2 brawn t shirts and theres no team next year!
IDR
16th November 2009, 23:50
Great value in eBay in few years!
GeeMac
17th November 2009, 6:38
Keep them in their original packaging and then go on the Antiques Roadshow in 40 years, they’ll probably be worth a fortune!
Paige Michael-Shetley
16th November 2009, 20:02
I still think Button will remain with Mercedes. Surely, Mercedes as a company would like to have the #1 on their car in their first season. Furthermore, Button is already entrenched there, and I don’t really see them just screwing him over for Rosberg.
I still see Raikkonen ending up at McLaren. He’s clearly the man they want, but for the right price. They’re in the driver’s seat, as well; he needs a top car, and there’s only one option for him, while McLaren have a number of driver options from which to choose. The fact he hasn’t been confirmed with the team yet is mainly due to the dynamics of the current market.
BGSF1
16th November 2009, 20:19
But is Mercedes the team that will provide button a car that will stand a chance of winning??
steph
16th November 2009, 21:04
After this mad season I doubt anyone could say for certain
TMAX
16th November 2009, 20:04
BRavo Mercedes. That is the spirit when Constructors are running aways in one single move Mercedes has gained a lot of respect, support and popularity.
Button at McLaren !!! Hmmm Hamilton will have him for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner. Well. He stands no chance to Lewis. Lewis in young, he is brilliant, he is a very strong driver and to top it all he has Ron’s blessing with Mclaren created around him as Ferrari was around shumey. I cant imagine anybody other than Lewis winning a WDC in Mclaren until he is there.
Adding to that he outdid Fernando in his rookie year while Fernando was the WDC then. Seriously Button is just another driver with a huge amount of luck with a strong Brawn GP team with a weak team-mate. I dont want to undermine his world Championship but paring with Lewis… well that is a different story.
I seriously feel Kimi stands a better chance to race against Lewis in his forte. If Jenson was wise he will take a lower salary and partner with Rosberg at Mercedes atleast that will not show him second to anybody. If he goes to Mclaren this will be first instance a world champion has signed up as a No 2 driver though he will carry the No 1 on his car!!!
KNF
17th November 2009, 2:21
Too bad Audi is having too much fun in the Le Mans series to considering returning to F1…
DMW
16th November 2009, 20:10
Now I understand Whitmarsh’s satisfaction to bide his time on driver choice. Now that Kimi is excluded from Brawn because he lacks the correct passport, and has no way in to Red Swill, he has to come crawling to Woking with his tin cup out (OK, it’s very large tin cup) if he wants another shot at a title. Whitmarsh will force him to endure weekly Vodaphone marketing events in sticky-floored Midlands shopping malls.
It’s worth considering whether he could dislodge Webber, but if he’s weird about doing publicity, then that is not going to be his cup of tea. I still think its possible for Webber to get sent to McLaren—we know that Red Bull can be ruthless with its drivers. I may also look for Sutil at McLaren, in a Kovy-swap. Hamilton seems to adore him, i.e., does not fear him, and he would ruffle no feathers at McLaren.
I must also say that it is strange and refreshing that Briatore apparently has no role in these discussions. His normal procedure of churning his various indentured drivers annually among teams to up his personal cut of contracts has been put to an end.
Harv's
16th November 2009, 22:21
Mclaren is a serious team, they wont hire sutil he has scored less points than he has fingers and toes. They wont hire him because he is Hamiltons friend! Its a serious business they want constructors, when sutil starts scoring regular podiums and a good amount of points then mclaren will start looking at him, and that will be just looking, not even considering
ARoss
16th November 2009, 21:16
I hope Kobayashi gets a contract somewhere. He put up a refreshing show during the last races of the season!
steph
16th November 2009, 21:31
Maybe Lotus but Gascoyne seems to want two experienced drivers which means Trulli and possibly Jacques V
GeorgeK
16th November 2009, 21:54
rmac923 wrote
From your keyboard to the racing god’s ear! I also appreciate your Toyota reference, if you care to expand on the comment?
Harv's
16th November 2009, 22:13
has anyone realised it is similar to the bmw williams depature of a few years back?
What if Mclaren choose kimi? and Mercedes choose Heidfeld and Rosberg? Where will Button go?
Maybe he has been a bit foolish in not sucuring a drive? (if that happens)
TommyB
16th November 2009, 22:22
Button has gone to McLaren
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/16/jenson-button-joins-mclaren-contract
Chalky
16th November 2009, 22:29
Thanks for that Tommy. Can’t quite believe it yet.
Button must think he can beat Hamilton to make the move. Maybe he’s right.
Next year is goodbye to refuelling and maybe Button will preserve his tyres better than Hamilton?
Either way, it’ll be good to watch.
Robbie
16th November 2009, 23:54
I was going to post this. It’s unbelievable. The official F1 site hasn’t said anything about it though and neither has the BBC.
Chalky
17th November 2009, 9:28
It was on BBC Radio 1 news this morning. Not on the website yet.
lynnduffy
17th November 2009, 1:49
Alan Henry would be the first to know… I think it’s legit. Stupid of Button, but legit.
Dane
16th November 2009, 22:35
Mclaren just want Button so they can have a #1 on their car. Oh, & to support Lewis…
Scribe
16th November 2009, 23:13
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2009/nov/16/jenson-button-joins-mclaren-contract
the guardian report that Buttons already gone to Mclaren. well fuh, thats sad. Whatever this article is v.poorly written by guardian standards so im not sure if its true or not.
See the Button thread on the forum for a more in depth discussion
Mike "the bike" Schumacher
16th November 2009, 23:24
Very very sad to see Brawn leave but delighted to see Mercedes come back hopefully this will mean a three way rivalry for championships in the future. I think it will ensure the teams spot at the front of the grid for years to come, and Mclaren back to orange would be brilliant.
Does this mean for percentage wins and championships Brawn are the most successful team ever?
Tmax
17th November 2009, 5:31
100% championship success…… not bad
gpcampbell
17th November 2009, 0:22
Why has everyone decided that Jenson is rubbish??
Sure his qualifying could use some work, but hes shown he can boss races from the front and also fight his way forward in a catagory that is notoriously difficult to overtake in??
Lewis and Jenson batteling on the track could be awsome. I dont think its would be the white wash that everyone thinks. Also i think Mr Alonso in a galloping horse may have some words to say too.
dsob
17th November 2009, 0:25
McLaren signing Button may well be simply thumbing their nose at Mercedes. But, I’d like to think McLaren is smart enough to insure they get true value for their dollars. With refueling banned for 2010, Button’s smooth and fluid driving style could net McLaren some wins, where Hamilton’s raw speed doesn’t turn the trick. And I think McLaren is smart enough to give Button a car good enough to do just that.
Just waiting now for Mercedes to confirm Quick Nick for the other seat, and I can hear the Beeb broadcast opening….”Welcome to the 2010 Anglo-Teuton Conflict” … LOL
Now, on a more personal note—Mercedes back in Formula 1 :) I don’t care who they give the second seat to, the car has a Mercedes badge on it, and that’s fine with me. Now, if only we could figure out a way to get Maserati interested again. Or Jaguar. Or Aston-Martin maybe? Maybe Sir Frank might go that way, (with no Toyota), and the Anglo teams could gang up on the Germans, LOL. I know, fantasy. But a nice one. :)
Paul H
17th November 2009, 0:27
I think this is as much about marketing as it is about F1 racing. I wonder how much Vodafone also had in the decision making, and that on Friday at McLaren’s over tea and biscuits, McLaren must have dangled the right sized carrot for Jensen.
marcus
17th November 2009, 0:29
I think Nico Rosberg has what it takes to tango with the big boys with a decent car.
I think it’s abit sad if Jenson did go to mclaren, because he would have to play second fiddle to Hamilton for the rest of his Mclaren career even with having the number 1 on his car for 2010 atleast. Mclaren will have to be very careful if they hired Button and made him the number 2 driver if he didnt already know that would happen. it would ruin Mclaren big time and probably stop any other decent drivers going into that team. Why would any half decent driver go to a team to just be Hamiltons test boy.
Button would not roll over for Hamilton, Kimi i dont think he cares “stereotype” i know. Heidfeild could work out or maybe get another “British or other” rookie in? Hamilton’s top dog in there so i think Kimi would be an expensive 2nd driver but a good kick up the ass if Lewis needs it, and it will help alot for Mclaren to win the constructors title for the first time since 1998.
Roll on next few days/weeks i say to see what happens.
dsob
17th November 2009, 0:32
And this raises an interesting point, albeit off-topic for this thread.
As far as I know, Mark Webber has not yet fired Briatore. According to the terms of the WMSC decision, any venue, promoter, or anone wishing FiA sanction …including drivers…may not have anything to do with Briatore.
Soooooo……if Webber doesn’t fire him, Webber may not have a superlicense for 2010 and RBR may need to find someone for that seat. I vote for Kobyashi, if Webber stands his ground and gets punyed.
dsob
17th November 2009, 0:34
Lordy, my fingers have forgotten how to type. Please forgive the typos. And that last word should read “punted”.
wasiF1
17th November 2009, 1:50
I have mixed feelings.I am happy that a manufacture has returned to F1 & if in the near future Mclaren build their own engine we may have two.But a couple of years from now on we will say “Once upon a time there was a F1 team named Brawn GP who didn’t even knew whether they will be on the grid a month before the start of the season has won both the driver’s & constructor’s championship”.We will miss the name.& the last & most important thing is that we saw over the last 12 months big car companies like Honda,Toyota,BWM & even may be Renault pulling out because of the global economics,will there be a time when Mercedes think about it.& now the drivers,if Button move to Mclaren then I think he needs to play the team number 2 or accept a pay cut in Mercedes,but I think Mercedes will try with Roseberg & Glock & in the near future Vettel.
Anyways all the best MERCEDES
Terry Fabulous
17th November 2009, 2:07
Isn’t it ironic that the great Independant team Tyrell, has turned out to be the great Manufacturer team Mercedes-Benz!
Net Sticks
17th November 2009, 5:26
I like the car – I hope it will remain like that. About the politics, I’m ok and I guess they are too, with a Lewis/Button line-up at McLaren and I believe that McLaren has it all planed so when Mercedes leaves, they can be a totally independent team, of course with a lot of money from big sponsors.
About the Mercedes line-up, well, I still can’t see Niko Rosberg as a title challenger and about Nick Heidfeld, I think he should retire and it would be one less german on the Formula One line-up.
I was looking forward to see Kimi Raikkonen alongside Lewis and I believe it would be the strongest pair of drivers in all the teams, but it looks like Ferrari paid Kimi more to be in the stands than along him to race in other team… It’s typical Ferrari anti-fair-play, but we can’t really blame Kimi and if McLaren can have the World Champion (and the number ONE) in their cars for less money, it’s still a great deal looking at the drivers and having the last two World Champions on the team, the number ONE on the chassis, that’s got to worth a lot on money only in publicity, merchandising, etc.
So, let’s see and hope for the best. The really important thing is that Ferrari dissolve a good pair of drivers thinking Alonso will give then a handful of Championships and in the end (and right at the beginning), the only thing he will give them is a serious headache and I can bet next season they are negotiating with him to get out, like McLaren did – I guess Ferrari like to throw money out the window…
Net Sticks
17th November 2009, 5:33
Just to add a curiosity: An English team (McLaren) against a German team (Mercedes)… too bad Ferrari can’t find two Italian drivers that can do anything in F1 and Renault the same with French…
It would be great (if you don’t are a Ferrari tiffosi) that the 2010 Formula One World Championship would be fought between McLaren and Mercedes (that were only one team in 2009) This after the Brawn / Honda episode of success, would be another unexpected but great year for Formula One and F1 fans, of course!
GeeMac
17th November 2009, 6:52
Next season could be epic! Mclaren, Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes all battling for top spot…can’t wait!
Any of 8 drivers by my count (Jenson, Lewis, Alonso, Massa, Vettel, Webber, and whoever ends up at mercedes) could be in the running for race wins…
steph
17th November 2009, 7:06
This news is not good in my opinion. Hamilton will probably always be number 1 there but what I’m most annoyed at is the great dream of the best in the business fighting it out. Kimi Lewis vs Felipe fernando with Seb and Robert in the mix. No more kimi in f1?:(
shery
17th November 2009, 8:14
its very obvious that now mercedez is gonna take kimi..they are a new team with so big name…what i feel is that mercedez wanted to make room for kimi thats why they never finalised a deal with button..we all know why brawn won this year’s championship…this will not happen again when the natural order will restore….button is not capable of performing when the car is not the BEST on the grid..they want the two best drivers to challenge the likes of alonso/massa in ferrari and hamilton in mclaren…and its only kimi raikkonen..
“Clearly a German driver would be nice for them but we don’t need two German drivers, that’s not the intent.”,,,,nick fry,,,
in this way they will have a german driver nico rosberg and a strong driver kimi raikkonen to challenge ferrari and mclaren..
shery
17th November 2009, 8:16
we,ve been discussing that how mercedez-mclaren deal has an effect on kimi-mclaren deal..it directly implies that mercedez wants kimi in mercedez gp…think for a minute why wont they be willing to pay 8 million pounds to button..cant mercedez offord him?..they surely can..
and this deal is in good interest of all mclaren,kimi and mercedez..but yes someone is going to loose in all this..and its jenson button..another heiki kovaleinen
steph
17th November 2009, 8:39
Kimi has made it clear he only wants Mclaren:s
Maksutov
17th November 2009, 9:33
but that is before he knew that Mercedes might get more involved. So I would say there is good chance now that Kimi teams up with Rosberg? I would love to see that.
PJA
17th November 2009, 10:01
I thought Raikkonen’s conditions for a seat next year were a car that could win the championship and a team prepared to pay him what he wants. This second condition initially ruled Brawn out but it won’t rule Mercedes out.
Also in some comments I have read it is implied that Raikkonen’s pay off from Ferrari for next is larger if he doesn’t race in F1, which is why he won’t accept a lower salary from McLaren as he will be losing money. I know the Ferrari pay off will be confidential but is the accepted view?
djdaveyp
17th November 2009, 11:03
so its 2 finns at mercedes!
HounslowBusGarage
17th November 2009, 9:07
Mercedes F1. I wonder if that indicates a problem for their DTM involvement next year?
Kevin
17th November 2009, 10:13
Jenson, please please please dont leave Ross Brawn. It will be a fatal move to go to McLaren beside Hamilton.
djdaveyp
17th November 2009, 11:59
I, for one, am very excited about the prospect of Jenson going to McLaren.
Jenson and Lewis are both brilliant drivers in completely different ways, if Mclaren make a good car they can both set up, be prepared to see them obliterate the rest of the field for the considerable future. McLaren might actually get the constructors championship for a change!
marcus
17th November 2009, 13:19
Idd it is exciting that the idea jenson would go to Mclaren but for the past 2 years Lewis had been favoured over Haikki. Yer i know Haikki wasn’t that good but he still got new parts a race or 2 after Lewis did and if its: 50/50 for both drivers thats good, 70/30 for Hamilton…ok jenson just has to keep up and try to beat him to get more support, 150/0 for Lewis like this season jenson should not even bother and stick to a mercedes. He would have a more realistic chance of winning again without having his teamate infront all the time with a updated car.
The Limit
17th November 2009, 13:59
I think this situation suits McLaren better than anybody else. The prestige of having two world champions in their cars at the same time has not been witnessed in two decades, and will generate plenty of attention from the worlds media and sponsors.
As for the drivers themselves, it is also a comfortable
arrangement on paper. Hamilton is well entrenched at McLaren and is popular, he is not the young rookie anymore desperate to make an impression like he was in 2007. Button will bring stability, especially in the constructors championship for McLaren, who had to rely almost totally on Hamilton for their points this year.
The comparisons between Hakkinen and Coulthard go only so far, and both of these guys are champions. How their relationship will progress as 2010 unfolds is anybodys guess? However you splice it, McLaren certainly have less on their plate than Ferrari with Alonso and Massa, which if is not monitored, could end up one big cluster.
As for Raikkonen, if rumours are to be believed, the Finn is rapidly running out of options. When he left McLaren in 2006 for Maranello, the sport was awash with money and $45 million a season was a prospect when driving for a big team. The landscape now looks less than friendly to a driver used to such big bucks and who has dramatically underachieved in his last two seasons in F1. At thirty years of age, teams must be asking is Raikkonen worth the investment?
As a fan of Kimi, I hope that the answer to that question is yes, as Raikkonen on his ‘quick’ days is bloody fast, but I have my doubts. Is it too unrealistic a scenario that Kimi could end up driving for a backmarker team? If he wants to stay in F1, that maybe his only choice, if he wants to stay!
For Brawn Gp, the honeymoon is over. 2010 is huge year for them, with all the big money of Mercedes behind them and two new drivers. The expectation is going to be enormous on this rebranded team, even for a man as talented and devoted as Ross Brawn.
luky
17th November 2009, 14:42
It´s a win-lose-win-lose situation for everyone. =; o )
Kimi is the new James Hunt: after winning the WDC doesn’t care much and cashes all he can. Certainly Kimi cashes much more than Hunt but possibly drinks less – I mean doesn’t deliver a true free-careless character as Hunt did.
Button wants to be the new James Hunt: after winning the WDC cares only to cash as most as he can. A mini Hunt as he cashes much less than Kimi and doesn’t have really a character know of.
Mercedes and Brawn get Heidfeld at a low price compared with Button and the performance will be the same.
Mclaren get number 1 in their cars – I wonder why they need that unnoticed number these days? But also guarantee no wars between drivers and Hamilton gets another free bonus with no rivals – Kimi could be a threat.
Ferrari/Santander could be the big losers as they will have to pay a lot of millions to Kimi if he does not drive in 2010. But they could end winning if Alonso performs as expected by both parties.
Rubens is finally free from his mentor/torturer -Mr R blablabla Brawn ;-) and have a new fantastic job as Williams number one and 300 gp’s in his pocket very soon. Also terribly good for a team like Williams – experience can teach Hulkenberg.
spark
17th November 2009, 15:03
I can’t believe that Brawn is still arguing with Button over a few million. Brawn made what, over 80 million by selling the team? He should make up Jenson’s pay out of his own pocket. Button took a hit to his wallet to keep the team going at the end of last season.
mvi
17th November 2009, 15:21
It would be fun to see a real shake-up like Hamilton going to Brawn, as part of the Mercedes deal and as an assertion of independence. Just a thought.
marcus
17th November 2009, 15:27
I wonder if it will be handbags at dawn like Lewis vs Alonso again, i can see the whole of Great Britian being divided over 2 drivers…..